Ol' WDB's Column

By: Warren Bonner
To: Ward Dossche, Europe Gate (1/2)
Re: Fidonews

WD> Warren,
Thank you for your very clear message from a few days ago in FIDONEWS (the conference) to which I tried to provide a balanced follow-up which, with proper editorial intervention, might suit as an article.

WB> It is one of many, many articles I have been deluged with, demanding my attention "for next issue".

WD> However, my very open and defenseless attempt to write something within a few hours has been abused by some individuals who literally have quoted selectively that I've declared the IC- position is now cemented to my butt and I can flick the middlefinger to anyone.

WB> I read it as a good example of flying off the handle in a snit. Example: `How dare anyone question my authority, as long as I am Z2C I am not removable from my International Coordinator position, and I can flip my middle-finger at everyone'.

Also your continued claim that you have the right to "come down heavy" on any nodelisted sysop who has an Internet Domain with the word "Fido or Fidonet" in it's title, and the site displeases you. Folks want to know where you get this power!?

WD> You will recall, I hope, I was merely pointing to an obvious weakness in P4 now that 2 of the 6 mandates in ZCC are not exercised. It means under the current constellation if there were to be a voting, which I strongly doubt, the current IC needs to vote against himself in order to reach a majority.

WB> I don't read the P4 policy guidelines exactly as you do. Not my call, probably because I don't know what, "It means under the current constellation" means... unless you mean `constitution'.

WB> If the other ZC's Do Not agree with you, you may be out as IC. The guidelines set forth in P4 are not a ratified Constitution. And under our P4 guidelines, there is NO provision for an IC to remove a node from the node list. You are not a NC or RC, the only ones responsible for the nodelist on that level.

WB> As far as the current Z2C voting against himself statement above, the current IC should disqualify himself in this kind of dispute as his position is the one in question. You cant shrug it off with a suggestion of a "policy review perhaps".

WD> If he is to disqualify himself from voting there cannot be a majority at all <period>. I pointed out this was a serious matter for concern during a policy-review.

WB> Nope, It will not come down like you fantasize. You are only one of six Zones. And if through the Snooze your zone finds out what you are trying to do to nodes who don't give up their property at your demand "in two hours", and your claims to control the Internet... I'd be real surprised if the RCC permits you to sit in the Z2C chair.

WD> Was I so wrong in highlighting that?

WB> Yes. For several reasons in reasonable minds. but primarily because in a majority vote on anything the votes that are cast are the ONLY ones that count. Abstentions and no votes do not count. You can't claim empty chairs for your votes. That is ridiculous.

WD> The bottom-line for me is that instead of lending broad support for some contributions for Fidonews (the publication) I need now to revise my options and maybe start doing like Bob Satti did ... replying with "Good", "You think so?", "So noted", etc...

WD> Had you done so, the threats and tyrannical actions on your part would still be counselled and no ill-advised action would have been demanded. Bob Satti would have made better use of your perceived power in your position in my mind. The NC's and RC's are the real powers in fido and make the mail flow... the ZC positions are necessary only for Zonal problems, the IC position is icing on the fido cake; your icing is no sugar and all demand.

WD> I've been linked to the FIDONEWS conference for less than a week and I will soon turn it to passthru again. Unfortunately I cannot deal with the amount of abuse and falsifications produced by a mere handful of individuals, but a handful who shouts too much and talks too little.

WB> Ward, you almost make me feel sorry for you except for the facts: 1.) Only you, in your own words, threatened a nodes removal. 2.) Only you, in your own words, claimed Internet fido domain policing 3.) Only you, in your own words, "will come down heavy on any fido domain that is negative in any way..."

WD> Our RC29 her in Belgium, who is a longstanding sysop and respected all over this 11,000-node zone, expressed yesterday he has to go back to the darkest days of Fidonet to find these levels of abuse and wickedness of which the obvious signs of bad will and manipulation for us reach new heights.

WB> I respect your friend RC29, but look elsewhere for the abuse, it is not of the sysops making. It is of your own abuse of perceived power you fantasize is yours in an IC hat. To resist your unfounded power is not wickedness as you are not God. To resist God would be wicked in all religions; but resist your abuse of power and listen to you accuse the lowly sysops of being wicked is ludicrous.

WD> Yesterday, I went to work all day but I have been physically sick over this. I'm determined not to let it further affect my health, my family and my work ... not necessarily in that order.

WB> For that kind of stress and worry that you suffer, I am truly sorry. I have been in that state back when I owned three fair sized companies. This however is not work induced, Ward. It is your determination alone to suffer it no matter what, rather than post an apology you owe Steven. It unfortunately has gone too far now for an apology to make any difference. And claiming lordship over the Internet domains kinda cooked your goose. It NEVER pays to NEVER back off when wrong no matter what Green Peace practices.

WD> What I mean to say, Warren, is that I am out of FIDONEWS (the conference) but if you need to get in touch with me you know where to reach me. E-mail is also accepted at wd@skynet.be.

WB> Thanks for the article, Ward, and I enjoyed this "Chat with the Editor" session. I am truly sorry you couldn't take the honest friendly suggestions a week ago to apologize, admit an error and move fido on down the road to include eventual IP, URL Fidointernet.

WD> Don't take this personal, it isn't.

WB> No, no... I hope you don't feel my candid thoughts are worthless.

WD> Have a nice day,

WB> You too.

WD> \x/@rd

WB> Regards,
Ol'wdb, editor fidonewsletter, a weekly publication in fidonet.
(Fido, fidonet is a Tom Jennings Copyright)

Howdy Warren.

Thanks for the nice reply. Feel free to put it in the snooze.

23 Dec 28 23:39, Warren Bonner wrote to Mark Stennett:

>> Howdy All.
>>
>> I left Fidonet some 6 years ago due to work and have recently
>> come back. Prior
>> to that I was NC, NEC and even ran the NorCal Star for a time
>> in Net203. I
>> remember the long distance bills and the electric bills.
>> Breaking even was
>> impossible. Keeping 7 386 class computers talking was a
>> challenge. Keeping the
>> room cool without additional technology called for ingenuity.
>>
>> Today, I have 80% of my 6 year old system frozen on tape and
>> have been recently reading the mail in here. I have to tell
>> ya, it appears nothing in the last 6 years has changed by
>> reading this one single echo. Bitch, bitch, bitch. If the
>> nodelist is any clue these days, 'we' are spending way too
>> much time bitching about who does what when we should be
>> talking about how we communicate in the new age. This includes
>> the internet. Like it or not, everyone knows what AOL is. Try
>> asking these same folks what Fidonet is. 'We' are pissing in
>> our own pool. The average dog has a life span of 14 years.
>> This pooch is laying on the porch watching the big internet
>> dogs run by...
>>
WB> Sorry for quoting entire message, but it is worth it for
WB> all to read and consider the wisdom of the message... wish
WB> it had arrived an hour earlier as I have already hatched
WB> the Snooze for this week; otherwise
WB> it would be one of the articles... maybe even Guest
WB> Editor's comment. How many other Mark Stennett's are out
WB> there????

WB> Thanks Mark, for a ray of reason in an echo dimmed by lack
WB> of leadership in the past. A much brighter light is just
WB> now in place
WB> with the election of Janis Kratch to Z1C. Let us hope for a
WB> new spirit in an old puppy... <G>

WB> Ol'wdb

WB> -+-
WB> + Origin: Telnet://TheLastStop.osirusoft.com/ 1:103/401
WB> (1:103/401)

Later,
Mark

Georgetown, TX
http://www.batcave.cc
Private Email: na6m@hotmail.com

--- Msged/386 4.30
* Origin: =BATCAVE= Georgetown, TX http://www.fidonet.cc (1:382/23)

By: michael kleerbaum
To: Alle
Re: Statement

Diese Mail wurde weitergeleitet

MsgID : 2:2432/203@fidonet fbcacb9d
Originalabsender : michael kleerbaum@2:2432/203
erstellt am : 26.12.00 um 23:34
im Echo : /FIDO/ENET.SYSOP
an : Ward Dossche
Betreff : Statement
Kommentar :

Mail Anfang----------------------------

Hi Ward,

We have written this, because in our opinion your statement is not so clear as it should be to give FidoNet-Users the security to make FidoNet- related homepages in future without fearing restrictions from you.

Is it so, that you have been acting as the International Coordinator everybody who reserved a domain name including "fido" will have to ask you for permission, and will otherwise be removed from the nodelist?

WD> Any sysop administering a fidonet-related internet-domain and doing WD> that for the sole benefit of Fido is encouraged to keep doing that.

And Steven Leeman did not so?

What has he done that you think you have the right to remove him from the nodelist?

We knew Steven as a node who did many positive things related to FidoNet. Many Sysops in Germany including us don't believe that he intends doing something negative with "FIDO.BE" and "FIDONET.BE".

Question: Will you remove Steven from the Nodelist this Friday and WHY do you think that you're having the right for doing this?

Must a node communicate with you and speak with you about things NOT related to FidoNet? Who do you think who you are? You in your function as a IC or ZC have to serve FidoNet and the users of FidoNet and not to hinder them to make FidoNet well known in the WWW.

We, the members of the WIF-Team have bought the domain WAS-IST-FIDO.DE a year ago. We have not asked any *C if this is allowed. Also we have no *C informed that we would do so.

In the next year we're going do create several international versions of our pages.

We are not going to ask ANYONE in FidoNet

a) which domains we are allowed to buy b) what is allowed to be shown on the page.

We won't accept any interferences or restrictions relating to the topic of the pages or the names of the domains by the FidoNet-*Cs

We have created these pages to attract new members for FidoNet. We do this cause we like FidoNet. We like the things we're doing "marketing" for. So because we help saving Fido, we think that neither you nor anyone else is having a right to hinder us doing so.

If you think someone is trying to use a "Fido" domain for something not related to Fidonet in any kind your only option is to speak with these people in a friendly manner. And even if they - being Fidonet members - don't agree with you, because they (e.g.) want to make a homepage for their dog "Fido", you have no right killing these guys out of the nodelist.

For the WIF-Team Germany:

Jens Hassler 2:2476/847 Michael Kleerbaum 2:2432/203 Tobias Gaertner 2:2476/847.47 Christoph Ripp 2:2432/203.10 Jan Kuehnert 2:2487/847.14

HTTP://WWW.WAS-IST-FIDO.DE

--- CrossPoint v3.30.018 R *
Origin: http://www.was-ist-fido.de: Sag's weiter! (2:2432/203)

By: Thom LaCosta
To: Ward Dossche
Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...

Ward Dossche wrote in a message to Warren Bonner:

WD> If I need to state an official position then it is that all sysops who maintain Fidonet-related internet-domains which are utilized to further the aim of Fidonet are strongly encouraged to continue doing so.

TL> But, you have no authority to direct anyone who owns a domain name to do anything as it pertains to the domain name.

WD> It implies that if such domains are spotted which are not used in that sense action is required. An item to be taken on board in a policy-review?

TL> There is no Fidonet policy that has authority over domain names.

WD> Personally, and that's on a side note since the situation is only valid in a non-North American context (which means 90% of Fidonet), I believe that any fidonet.xx-domain (where the xx-denotes a country) should be handled by the RC of the country. Please, North-Americans, understand that outside your realm Country=Region.

TL> What you may believe has nothing to do with the policies and procedures of any of the recognized registers of domain names.

Thom LaCosta
baltimoremd@baltimoremd.com
http://www.baltimoremd.com/
---
* Origin: Home of The Other Robot (1:261/1352)

To: Janis Kracht
Re: Ward Dossche

Janis Kracht wrote in a message to Dave Hamilton:

RC> About that message on 12-25-2000 from Ross Cassell to All:

>> Its rather disturbing to see ones nodelisting being affected over
>> registering internet domain names or Ward throwing his 'TITLE'
>> around:

>> "I am the INTERNATIONAL COORDINATOR"

RC> Do you have an opinion of Ward Dossche's treatment of Steven Leeman?

JK> Yes, I do. Steven contacted me on the 22nd of December about this. I gave him some ideas that he might present to Ward to try to make things work out but I did not hear anything from Steven after that. If Ward does remove Steven from the nodelist, or puts his listing on hold over this I definitely feel it is very wrong.

RC> Does the RCC have an opinion?

JK> That I can't tell you ... most likely they have been busy with family today as I have been. I've seen Ross's posts here obviously <smile>.

RC> I think it's obscene.

JK> There is a body whose name escapes me at the moment who decides such issues as ownership of Domain names.. even if this body decides that Ward should have ownership of this domain name, Steven should not be removed from the nodelist. In my reply to Steven on the 22nd, I told him to let me know if he was removed.

It's called WIPO and Ward wouldn't stand a chance to take the domains away. Tom Jennings on the other hand would be able to take them with a minimum of fuss as long as he could prove that the domains were being used to emulate the purposes of his copyright or to cause confusion over the proper domains. Seeing as how Tom Jennings doesn't own any of the internet domains containing FIDO or FIDONET to the best of my knowledge, even he wouldn't be able to change these domain listings. What Ward has done (at least as far as I can tell from Ross' cross postings) is nothing short of extortion.

DC> I would get this kid and their entire region (probably region 28 as well if they wanted) moved into the Z1 nodelist... keep the RCs as well... we can certainly use more RCs when it comes time to rewrite P4 ;)

Dave Calafrancesco, Team OS/2
dave@drakkar.org

By: Ward Dossche
To: Malcolm Miles
Re: Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...

Malcolm,

> DR> FYI, the FidoNet name is a Trade Mark owned by Tom
> DR> Jennings. No NET, REGION or ZONE owns any trademarks on
> DR> any names.

> Is it? A number of people have done a trademark search and not found any
> reference to a Fidonet trademark.

I've querried the man himself and he's quite reluctant to say very much about it.

\x/@rd

--- DB 1.58/001877
* Origin: Many Glacier on ADSL now (2:292/854)

By: Warren Bonner
To: Dale Ross
Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...

> Hello Malcolm!
> --== On 26/12/2000 11:09:36 AM ==--
>
> MM> The issue in question resides solely within Zone2 and was madey
> MM> by Ward wearing his Z2C hat.

Nope! Check his IC hat statement.

>
DR> Nope, not from what I've seen. He was using his IC hat.
>
DR> Thanks!
DR> Dale

Correct, and is the reason I suggested the ZCC may be interested in removing him from offices he holds that impowers him to use nodelist update software like a double edged sword on any sysop for any reason.

If he is willing to back off and apologize to Steve Leeman and his down links, perhaps a ZCC resolution may be avoided; if not, I hope they remove him from office just as we had to remove another abuser of power who wore several hats in Region 10, Zone 1 awhile back.

Ol'wdb

--- InterMail 2.29k
* Origin: Telnet://TheLastStop.osirusoft.com/ 1:103/401 (1:103/401)

By: David Hallford
To: brenda donovan
Re: Hmmmm

DH> Anyone going to give Steve Leeman a node number? This certainly looks like a case of political asylum to me.

> Ross offered him one earlier today. I believe
> Steven also got an invite from a German net.
> It's all in the FIDONEWS echo.

Excellent!

--- GEcho 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The Psychotic Submarine (1:211/103)

By: Ross Cassell
To: michael kleerbaum
Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...

Hello michael!

25 Dec 00 22:17, you wrote to me:

RC>> To which, WARD does not have this authority whatsoever.

mk> But he is able to do that. Who will or can stop him from doing this? (to delete Steven from the nodelist.)

In which case, I'll list him, Ward doesn't control the corner of the nodelist I do.

==
Ross
E-mail: rcassell@home.com ICQ = 5305939

* Origin: The Eastern Star [Mail Hub] - 864.573.7069 (1:18/500)